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I installed 2.4 beta. The installation did not load languages and only the default accounts. no languages and accounts could be added in setup. I used an old back up file with my accounts to install my accounts and my language which is Dutch.
I have issues with the time zone settings. I did not change anything. I have 2 warnings. "date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in bestand:/config.php op regel50"
There is nothing to change in line 50 of the config.php and config.default.php file as asked in both warnings. Could not find a line to set the time zone.
My timezone is CET Brussels but the server is situated in the US
Time and date used by frontaccounting is correct.
How to remove these warnings?
I used the backup function and restored my accounts into 2.4. Problem is solved. Also the language settings are ok now.
Have still issues with the time zone settings. I did not change anything. There is nothing to change in line 50 of the config.php and config.default.php file as asked in both warnings. "date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in bestand: /hsphere/local/home/a986034/debeesnv.com/frontaccounting/config.php op regel50"
My timezone is CET Brussels but the server is situated in the US
Time and date used by frontaccounting is correct.
joe wrote:Check to see if your account COA has been updated in the repo. You can do that by selecting Install / Update chart of accounts in the Setup tab from inside 2.4. Look if your COA is there.
Joe
2.4 is installed on an a new server. The .sql file with the accounts is on my hard disk. I downloaded my account chart or made a back up before removing 2.3 but I do not remember . I think it is a backup file? 0_20140513_1449.sql
In setup Install / Update chart of accounts I get " cannot download repo index file" The same remark when trying to update/ install languages.
A few years ago I made a Belgian account chart with Frontaccounting 2.3. I did not use FA because of BTW ( VAT) declaration issues. Now I have installed 2.4 beta to test it. How can I install the .sql file of the accounts I made into FA 2.4.
Invoice must show tax point or time of supply date to be a legal invoice. This is not always the date of invoicing. This is a EU VAT rule and must be the same for all EU countries. Invoices that do not show both dates do not apply for VAT refund.
mmllmm wrote:itronics wrote:Regarding VAT numbers verification, this is currently not implemented in FA, however I agree it would be usefull. Anyway if you use FA via internet, there is no need for any EU VAT numbers/formats database: there is online service available HERE where you can check VAT numbers status at any time .
Janusz
Here is a similar application but with the ability to verify a large amount of numbers in one cycle.
VIES verification
For many, this can be very helpful.
When doing business with a strange company Vat number must always be verified to be valid .
The date base must not serve the verification of validation of VAT numbers but to eliminate the possibility for errors in the format. That the correct number of numbers and letters for that country are submit. Each country has his format for the VAT number beginning with the country letters. For Belgium BE 0 448 910 654. country-code BE followed by 0 and nine numbers. It is to verifier the format of the number, not the VAT number validation. To eliminate typing errors. VAT may become unclaimable when the number is not correct entered.
elax wrote:@demille
The current version 2.3.17 already includes some VAT improvement which should be enough to deall with EU VAT.
For example there is a new column in Journal Entry form allowing you to enter the amount of corresponding to a VAT account entry. This allow to enter 0-VAT.
/Elax
I have 2.3.14 for the moment. I will upgrade to 2.3.18 and check this out. Thank You for the info.
As I can remember it was not a problem to enter 0 VAT, the problem was to get the totals of 0 VAT turnover for VAT-tax declaration.
elax wrote:/Xero
AS I said, the main problem of the Box 7 is the "0 VAT" transaction problem. This has been sorted in FA but not released yet, because it's still under test, but it should be release soon.
Once it's been release doing a UK VAT report should be straight forward. But you'll need to have run the full quarter with the "new" code and configuration, so all the 0 VAT transaction are recorded properly. By that time, I probably would have done a UK VAT report compatible with the new version and so write a report as well.
Just be patient (and do it manually for now)
/Elax
Waiting for the EU VAT problem to be solved to move my accounts to FA. My hopes are on the release of FA 2.4. Any idea when?
joe wrote:Are you sure you do this correctly?
We have done a huge testing about this and everything work perfectly.
Joe
Sorry for wasting your time. I found de results in General ledger reports: Balance sheet. Also in balance drill down. I am used to see the results and have a complete overview making a trial balance.
Sincerely Yours,
De Mille
The Trial balance gives only the amounts for the accounts but does not give totals for sub-groups and groups. I did not enter a starting balance. I am just trying out the account tree I made by making some entries.
Correction, sub-groups can be defined but totals are not shown for groups and sub-groups in the balance sheet.
demille wrote:http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genormaliseerd_rekeningstelsel/bijlage
This is an example of the Belgian legal account tree and this must be followed by all companies. As you can see there are classes, groups and sub groups. Within these groups and sub-groups the accounts fore registration are made. They work as a tree. For example in class 6 there is group 60 with subgroups 600, 601, 602 and accounts 6001, 6002 .... ; 6010, 6011 ...; 6020, 6021 ... . Each sub-group can have sub-groups with accounts. To fill in the yearly declaration the totals for each sub-group, group and class are needed. In practice 8 digit accounts are used. The balance sheets in frontaccounting do not show the totals for each group and making subgroups seems to be not possible. How to solve this?
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genormaliseerd_rekeningstelsel/bijlage
This is an example of the Belgian legal account tree and this must be followed by all companies. As you can see there are classes, groups and sub groups. Within these groups and sub-groups the accounts fore registration are made. They work as a tree. For example in class 6 there is group 60 with subgroups 600, 601, 602 and accounts 6001, 6002 .... ; 6010, 6011 ...; 6020, 6021 ... . Each sub-group can have sub-groups with accounts. To fill in the yearly declaration the totals for each sub-group, group and class are needed. In practice 8 digit accounts are used. The balance sheets in frontaccounting do not show the totals for each group and making subgroups seems to be not possible. How to solve this?
itronics wrote:Well, I'm not European Union law specialist, so I'm not sure how the EU directives are applied across various EU countries. As far as I know EU tax law is not applicable directly to companies, which have toso EU companies have to fullfil local requirements, which varies.
EU directives lay down certain end results that must be achieved in every Member State. National authorities have to adapt their laws to meet these goals, but are free to decide how to do so.
This is how EC see this matters (according to the page you have mentioned). Many things you consider mandatory, are not mandatory - at least in Poland - as of January 1th 2013.
Thank you anyway for pointing out all the concerns related to using FA in other EU countries. We wil try address them better in following FA relases.
Janusz
As stipulated, EU member countries had to implement the new Vat rules in there national laws and implement them from 01 jan 2013. If Poland did not implement the new rules Polisch invoices are not legal documents for EU- Vat declarations and can not be used to claim VAT in other EU countries. In that case, the EU costumer must make a legal document for that invoice with VAT claimable date to claim paid VAT before the 15th of the month following the month the goods or services where received. As the received Polish invoice is not legal the EU costumer must always pay for the VAT before it becomes claimable by the self made legal document.
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/traders/invoicing_rules/index_en.htm
Second Directive on VAT Invoicing (Council Directive 2010/45/EU) and Explanatory Notes
The second Directive on VAT invoicing was adopted on 13 July 2010 and its provisions shall be applied by Member States as from 1 January 2013.
It aims to promote and further simplify invoicing rules by removing existing burdens and barriers. It establishes equal treatment between paper and electronic invoices without increasing the administrative burden on paper invoices and has the aim to promote the uptake of e-invoicing by allowing freedom of choice regarding the invoicing method.
For a clear understanding of the main VAT invoicing rule changes as from 1 January 2013 a set of Explanatory Notespdf Choose translations of the previous link has been written in 21 languages.
itronics wrote:Thanks for explanation.
Regarding VAT claimable date I guess there are changes needed in FA code to make it easier. In customized polish FA version, the VAT date is enterd separately in Purchase Invoice form. This cannot be added in 2.3.x FA version due to development policy, which forbid database scheme changes in minor releases. Will be fixed in 2.4. Before that I guess you can entry purchase invoice at invoice date, and rebook the VAT value via auxiliary account whenever it is needed.
Janusz
Sales invoices need a VAT claimable date possibility to make and print legal VAT invoices.
For purchases the invoice must carry the VAT tax claimable date to be used for VAT tax declaration. IF not the VAT-tax must be booked as an expense or on a waiting account until problem solved. In practice, payment will be made only for the VAT excluded amount.
Maybe thinking about an EU version of FA with automated VAT declaration ( also vat exempt amounts) possibilities and EU legal Invoicing.
EU sales declaration and Yearly costumer declaration .
As I am new in FA I am still surtching for a way to solf the VAT problem. I think making all purchases o vat and entering the VAT in an other line is the easiest way to solve the problem for the moment. I am now adapting the Belgian accounts to make it possible to tag them and try to get the totals I need for VAT declaration by the tagged accounts reports.
Each month or 3 months, when the vat declaration is made and posted, the GL VAT-tax accounts must be booked to the VAT R/C account. Is there a possibility to make a standard booking wich includes all neccasary accounts for repetitive bookings?
How to implement the VAT claimable date in FA?
Normal rent is VAT exempt. No invoice is needed. The rental contract and payment are enough to proof the booking. In Belgium, small company's book the rent when paid. At the end of the year, during inventory, the month's not consumed must be transferred and booked to next year. For company's that have monthly vat declaration or company's who wants monthly results, the rent is booked in the month it is consumed. When rent is paid for 3 month's in advance, the total rent is booked on a waiting account, for example RENT X 3. Each month the rent for one month is booked from this account to the account AR or AP. During inventory non consumed months are booked to next year.
In Belgium VAT exempt sales must be declared on the VAT declaration because VAT tax is deductible in ratio to the VAT exempt turnover.
Rental of real estate is VAT exempt but the rent must show in the VAT declaration. Rental of equipment is 21% VAT in Belgium.
Based on the rental contract the rent is paid in advance for a period of 3 months. Once paid, the VAT claimable date will be the date the payment was received and an invoice must be made before the 15é of the following month. When the invoice is received the VAT tax can be booked for the paid period as shown on the invoice. When the rent was not paid for, invoice must be made for the consumed TAX- period and booked in this period. Invoice date and VAT-tax claimable date will be the same.
There is a subscription on a monthly magazine payable in advance each 3 months. The subscriber forgets to pay but because he is a good costumer the next number was send to him. The VAT tax claimable date will be the date the magazine was send and the invoice for one magazine must be made before the 15é of next month. The invoice must be booked in the invoice date Tax period, As long the subscription was not paid for but magazines are send each month there will be an invoice each month. When the subscription was paid after the VATtax of the first month became claimable the next invoice will show the VAT-tax claimable date of the received payment.
This is how I implement the new Vat regulation.
In Belgium VAT declaration is before the 20é day of the month following the TAX period ( 1 or 3 month)
The above is for VAT tax declaration.
For income tax the normal accounting rules for your country apply.
Please comment.
itronics wrote:Regarding VAT numbers verification, this is currently not implemented in FA, however I agree it would be usefull. Anyway if you use FA via internet, there is no need for any EU VAT numbers/formats database: there is online service available HERE where you can check VAT numbers status at any time .
Janusz
Thank you ,
I have mentioned that website in previous message.
Because VAT numbers for EU countries have not the same number of digits
errors are easily made; A database could help to prevent errors because the correct quantity of digits for that country must be entered to be accepted.
itronics wrote:While all the EU countries have harmonized tax regulations, details of the regulations differ. For example in Poland the general rule binding VAT effective date with the goods delivery (optionally deferred to the sales VAT invoice date) is not applicable to some services. Example here are 'continues services' (like electric energy supply, telececom services etc), for which VAT effective date is the date determined by payment terms (yes, this is payment term stated on invoice, even not real payment date!).
Anyway, I understand this is fully legal in your country to have single purchase invoice document booked in GL under two different dates, for net and VAT part of the invoice value?
Janusz
These are EU rules and must be the same for all EU countries within the community. They where implemented from 01 jan 2013.
When for example the electric company sends each 3 months an invoice as advance on the yearly billing they can do this only after the electricity for that period was delivered, they may not send you an invoice any-more for an advance on the delivery of electricity. If they send you a bill ( not a legal invoice) for an advance on delivery they can only make an invoice and book it when you have paid the bill. The costumer has to wait for the legal invoice which he can book immediately because it was paid for even not delivered.
When the same invoice is not paid by the costumer the electric company must book the invoice because they have delivered but the costumer may only book that part of the invoice that has been delivered in the taxable period. When the taxable period is also 3 month but the moths do not correspond, only for the corresponding period VAT-tax is claimable.
Booking the same invoice under two dates is forbidden. Invoices may be made and booked only when the VAT- tax becomes claimable because bookings may show only the claimable VAT and not the VAT you may be entitled to. A seller can make a legal invoice only when the goods or services where delivered or the costumer has already paid for them as shown on his bank-account. Purchases may be booked the moment the legal invoice, with VAT-tax claimable date, arrived and the goods or services are received or have been really paid for, shown by the bank summary. So the GL accounts may show the booking on the date the legal invoice is made. This is for the VAt-tax and for net it should be the same because the legal invoice with VAT tax claimable date is the only valuable document on which the bookings may be based.
When each country will implement these new rules on there own way, nothing will change.
For the moment the directions in Belgium are as stated above.
This is not easy writing and as I am Dutch speaking I hope my English is good enough.
Thanks for the reply.
For transactions between EU countries for VAT tax to be claimable the VAT number on the invoice must be a legal VAT number. Each country has its own VAT number combination. This number must be verified by the receiver of the invoice before VAT tax becomes claimable. A first verification is that the number corresponds with the country of origin of the supplier. Al suppliers and costumers forms should have a country code entrance possibility which makes it possible to know if VAT-number entered corresponds with the country of origin. Or maybe this can be done by making an address field for the code, for example BE for Belgium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT_identification_number.
Then this number must be verified as an EU country registered number. A possibility is to check on the EU website: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/vatRequest.html?locale=en
To automatise this I think databases must be added. Help!
itronics wrote:All invoices must show the date of invoicing and the date when the VAT tax became claimable also when these dates are the same.
There is lack of separate VAT date in purchase invoice, it could be added, but what about the situation, when VAT date and invoice date are not the same?
Currently in FA all GL posting related to some document (e.g. purchase invoice) are posted on the same (document) date. I'm not sure whether posting VAT and net amounts on two different dates would be correct from accounting point of view? In other words: can we have single AR/AP subledger document to be posted on two different days in general ledger?
Janusz
In practice invoices are made and/or booked after the VAT tax becomes claimable, so the invoice date is always later or the same as VAT tax date. GL accounts may be booked when the invoice can be booked. The VAT date is de date goods or services are delivered or recieved or the date they are paid for as shown on the bank summary; So, when the goods are paid in advance the VATtax date is de date the payment shows on the bank summary.
AR/AP can only be booked when the invoice is booked because these are, together with the bank summary's, the legal documents to prove transactions.
wich prove the booked transactions.
EU regulations concerning VAT tax have been changed from 1 January 2013.
Before 2013 VAT tax for purchases was deductible from the moment the invoice was received and booked, for Sales VAT tax was payable from the moment the service or goods were delivered, invoiced or not.
From 2013 the purchases must also be delivered and/or paid for before VAT Tax becomes withdraw-able and may be booked. For sales the VAT tax becomes claimable and may be booked at the moment the goods are invoiced and delivered or have been paid for.
Invoices must be provided before the 15é day of the month following the month the VAT tax became claimable.
For EU deliveries the receiver of the goods or services must make a document and declare the VAT tax when the provider has not provided an invoice within these therms.
All invoices must show the date of invoicing and the date when the VAT tax became claimable also when these dates are the same.
Invoices can be booked only after the goods or services are paid for or delivered.
As Frontaccounting is not EU VAT tax friendly this will not make it easier to automatise the process.
Any proposals?
In may case negative bookings are not the solution. The VAT-tax must show as payable and deductible on the proper accounts so they must be booked debit and credit. The amounts must show on the balance.
As I stated before. Accounting-books must show at all times the real situation of the company and negative bookings must be avoided as much as possible, if not avoided at all. Questions may be asked about negative bookings. An accountant who uses negative bookings? That's why credit notes are created.
Booking a suppliers invoice should be a simple process because nothing has to be calculated. FA is a good ERP system and not an accounting program, therefore there is an other approach about the way things are done. Making it more difficult is not the answer.
To solve EU, non EU purchases and other received non VAT invoices where VAT must be declared by the receiver of the goods I need TAXcategories which can be assigned a creditable account and a debitable account, as it is now, but the VAT tax must be booked automatically to both accounts, credit and debit, when the supplier is assigned to that specific TAX category. Is this possible?
joe wrote:This seems to be a very valuable report. I will include a report in the Sales tab and call it Sales Summary Report. The selection dates will follow the tax period and the headers will be 'Customer' 'Tax Id', 'Total ex. Tax' 'Tax', 'Tax Group'.
This report will be good for other purposes too, I guess.
I will prepare it, and send you the 2 files needed for testing.
/Joe
For Belgium I need about the same report for EU costumers and EU suppliers sorted by tax group. Report must include company name, Vat number, total excl Vat for each invoice, total excl for each company, total excl for each taxgroup for the selected period.
For VAT declaration purposes I need a report-generator for GL accounts. Just totals for the period for all selected GL accounts necessary for VAT report. Is there a report-generator available in FA to make and safe personalised reports?
If GL accounts could be linked to VAT-groups and -types, just for reporting, all reporting problems for EU VAT regulations can be solved I think. Belgian GL accounts are ordered and numbered for making annual reporting easy but this way they are not ordered correctly for VAT declaration. It's an official account chart and may not be changed.
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