1 (edited by infotechaccountant 05/25/2009 07:14:17 pm)

Topic: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

when I designed the hierarchy chart of account which is consists of 3 levels I meant to test how is the shape of the output in balance sheet and income statement , I entered few transaction to test how it will be and found its shape need to be revised

first of all you can view the balance sheet from this link press Here
and you can view the income statement from this link press Here

in balance sheet we are all follow this formula : assets = owner equity + liabilities , this mean that the sign in the side of assets must be positive and the sign of all the figures in the side of owner equity and liabilities must be positive too , in our case here the side of assets positive and the side of capital and liabilities is negative

second thing here is the hierarchy query here not retrieve all the levels created through the accounts groups section , and if you have a look you will find that the sql query just obtain the top level but it must obtain all the levels as like this

L1-Assets
L2-Current Assets
L3-Account Name

but in the balance sheet report and profit and loss report you are doing like this

L1-Assets
L3-Account Name

so for me as an end user that need to read the detailed and good classified financial reports when I'm reading some kind of reports like what it is now I'll be not satisfied at all

also the name of profit and loss not according to the modern practice of accounting and not according to the international financial reporting standards , so you have to change it to Income Statement

Thank you in advance

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

more over the above mentioned information , in the part of owner's equity the "calculated return" which it must be named "Net Income " or " Net Profit or Loss " must be in our case here negative figure not positive , I thing all the signs of section of owner's equity must be reversed

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Regarding the sign presentation, this is very different in various countries. Therefore we have fixed this in the next release, 2.2, that you can choose for yourself how the class should be presented in BS and PL statements.

Regarding the level of the retrieval of the accounts, you are right. We must include this sublevel too (if it is a sublevel of another group). We will have to change the SQL for this.
Thanks.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

joe wrote:

Regarding the sign presentation, this is very different in various countries. Therefore we have fixed this in the next release, 2.2, that you can choose for yourself how the class should be presented in BS and PL statements.


/Joe

Thank you Joe , but the balance sheet or income statement will not differ from one country to another , it must be the same shape because those reports internationally applied according to international accounting standards and international financial reporting standard
Please check
IAS No.1

Best Regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Dear Joe

Try to review the post #1 in this topic and try to view the reports as the links was not correct , I update this and create a folder for testing reports

thanks

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

The correct sublevel presentation should now be working in reports COA, Monthly Breakdown, Balance Sheet and P&L Statements.
CVS Main (2.1.2) is updated. Look in CHANGELOG.txt for affected files.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

am I missing something ? , the change log file in sourceforge.net not include any update after 30.04.2009

thank you for the sublevel presentation

did you upload the new updated file to sourcefoge.net ?

what about the minus sign in the side of capital and liabilities which must be reversed and the profit and loss amount in balance sheet must be reversed as well .

thank you for your great efforts

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Strange, I have just looked at it at sourceforge.net. Release 1.194 of Main trunk is dated 26.05.2009. The files were uploaded yesterday.

Regarding the minus sign it is implemented in 2.2 unstable, due to we had to make an option in the classes on how to present the sign in BS and PL.

The 2.1 and 2.2 are not merged yet. The latest merge into 2.2 was with the release 2.1.2.
The sign setup can then be set as default in the COA when creating new companies.
We are planning to skip a release 2.1.3 soon, where the sublevel presentation will work.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

The CVS Main repository has now been updated with new files. It should no show correct sublevels in the various reports. If there are no transactions in L3 types, it will not show up in BS and PL. Just ot save space.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

thank you Joe , really you are doing your best

but still this problem of reversed sign in balance sheet , i think this problem is easy to solve , it is a matter of changing sign "I'm not developer but i guess", if you can solve this in the current version and update the download file in sourceforge with all the changes done we will appreciate this .

thanks again to you

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Hello again. Yes it is easy to fix, but it is implemented in 2.2 unstable. On the classes you can set a sign convert in 2.2. And it should be converted in liabilities and income classes (to only have 'positive' values).
In f.i. the Scandinavian countries most people are satisfied with the presentation as it is now. The reason for not implementing it in 2.1 is that an extra field in the chart_class is needed. And we cannot change the database structure inside a minor release.

The problem is to find a way around this in current release. I don't know if a class is belonging to liability or income in the classes. I only know if it belongs to a balance_sheet.
There can be different setups.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

I had a look to version 2.2 and I had a look in the new field or compobox that you add , and let me just share with you my small knowledge about the financial solutions .
I found this field that you add little bit strange and will not give the user the flexibility expected and more confusion will be for sure , I know that you as a developer you need to reach to your target which is in our case change the sign of liabilities and capital and the profit and loss but also if we have to achieve our goal we have use a logical way

actually I'm not familiar with php and mysql , but I have some knowledge in SQL server before 8 years and now I'm working as financial controller so from my experience I can tell you that the best way is to include a list field consists of three options with a title of "Class Type"
1- Assets
2- Liabilities
3- Owners Equities

the profit and loss will be positive for profit and negative for loss as usual and will be programmed to be added after the classes with a type of owners equities

the formula of report must be " Assets = Liabilities + Owner Equity (Capital) + Net Profit - Net loss "

if you will apply what I explain you will get standard balance sheet that there is no two accountants will disagree about .

in the future and as an effort to enrich the accounting practise using FrontAccounting , our forum in [url]www.infotechaccountants.com/forums[url/] , which include more than 56000 membership of Arab accountants and professors will help in designing the cash flow statement in the FrontAccounting according to international financial reporting standards and international accounting standards as a gift to FrontAccounting beside our gift of translating FrontAccounting into Arabic

for the future as God will and for the purposes of cash flow statement you will need to add more fields in classes and groups and accounts to obtain the cash flow statement , we will discuss this later which we hope to be included in version 3 series .

more over this also I think FrontAccounting need to attract more experts in financial accounting and auditing to give the correct advice about the critical scientific issues related to the outputs of FrontAccounting


Thank you Joe

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

I guess we could replace the class field, balance_sheet to include a Class Type instead. It could then be:
1. Assets
2. Liabilities
3. Owners Equities
4. Income
5. Expense (or costs)
Then we can discuss which class types should be presented converted. And take away the sign converter in the class form.
I will change this in 2.2. We know, of course, that 1,2 or 3 belongs to a balance-sheet.

Thanks for your nice words.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Great I do agree with you in this five class types , I think it will give you more programmable capabilities to control the output .

for class type no. 5 make it expense not cost

Best regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Ah, just a minor correction to the suggested fixed class types in 2.2. It should probably be:
1. Assets
2. Liabilities
3. Equities
4. Income
5. Cost of goods sold
6. Expenses
It is extended with Cost of goods sold. It will help analysing tools or own routines to extend the reporting. Ok?
It will be a minor manuel correction when updating existing companies, but this is a small price to pay for this new feature, right?
When we have released the next minor 2.1.3 in a couple of days, we will merge the changes in 2.1 into 2.2. Then we can continue with this work here.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

you are right , and maybe we can use it in the future

for that minor manual correction I think that it deserve

actually I didn't understand what you will do for the release 2.1.3 , do you mean that all these changes related to the class type field and sublevel reporting will be in the next minor version 2.1.3 ?

in the other hand I recommend to include the class type field and sublevel reporting in version 2.1.3 and i hope we can start concentrate in the output strengthen by adding cash flow statement , then ABC costing methods , then give the different option to the user to chose from costing methods FIFO or LIFO or Average Method
later on we can also concentrate in manufacturing to get into depth of modern cost accounting , then we have to design our HRM , CRM , SCM

a lot of things we are dreaming with and we hope more success for this solution 

Best regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

No, the new class type will not be in 2.1.3. It will be too much fuss inside a minor release. The merge will take all the fixed bugs and the new sublevel features into 2.2, so the class type and the sign converting can be continued in 2.2.
During developing of new minor/major release all the bugfixes etc. from the existing release will only be merged into the new minor/major release when shipping new subreleases, such as 2.1.2, 2.1.3 etc.
We expect the 2.2 RC to be released in a month or two. And it is followed by one or two RC or betas depending of bug testing.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

I think that as the balance sheet report is one of the features included in the last version 2.1.2 I recommend to make the changes for the class types and the sublevels and all the bugs in version 2.1.3 , because if we are going to start in version 2.2 we have to include some real changes on this version which is cash flow statement reporting and more analytical reports

what I need to pay your attention to is version 2.1.3 must include the correction of balance sheet and sublevels reporting because those changes should be exist in the old versions of that solution

I hope we can correct the exist outputs in version 2.1.3 and start real changes from version 2.2 to include cash flow statement , I'll supply to you the mathematical formula for it to help you design it and believe me this changes will make a very big difference between frontaccounting and weberp which is similar to your solution and it will be an important milestone in the road of developing frontaccounting   

also from morrow I'll will concentrate in feeding a demo data in the current version with the new developed chart of accounts to include it in the new 2.1.3


Best Regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

The planned changes cannot be included in version 2.1.3. Minor releases contain mainly bugfixes, and ANY database changes are prohibited. This fundamental development policy is not subject to change, as this is the only way to ensure any minimal  FrontAccounting stability.

So if you are in a hurry, please download CVS version after planned 2.1 branch merge merge and work on it.

Janusz

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

I am not sure if you understood me right. The changes we have made to 2.1.2 in the last CVS in of course included in 2.1.3. But the change of class type will implement a minor correction of the class table structure and therefore has to be made in 2.2. So we will have to wait with this implementation. But the 2.1.3 will work with the new sublevel change.
If you want the new COA to be included in 2.1.3, I will have to get the one with demo data tomorrow, because this is the planning date for shipping of 2.1.3. It will take me some hours to make them ready for including, but it could be donw. I was planning to wait to 2.2 with this includes, but nevertheless we can do it in 2.1.3.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

What I suggest you is to ship the empty chart of account as a default and then you can make a demo data for that particular chart of account available in the website , what I intend to do is to feed the demo data with a written problem to make the user understand very well the process of data , once the data entered and the reports generated we can show this results in website
I also suggest to close the demo data in the website and the users see the enquiries and reports only , I mean change the access rights for demouser to enquiries and we can setup a new company with a demo data but demouser will be accountant
So the companies I recommend are :
1.Empty with a new chart of account
2.Demodata with unchanged data and demouser with enquiries access right
3.Demodata with changed data and demouser with accountant access right

If we will apply this and ship an accounting problem as PDF file included with the frontaccounting this will make the solution more popular for accountants as we will give them the key of the solution by showing them the accounting problem and how we can process it to get the final reports through frontaccounting

For the demodata with unchanged data I can provide you by next Friday 05/06/2009 because I need more time to check the process of the solution , so if you can delay version 2.1.3 for more one week it will be better because I’m afraid that maybe there is more bugs must be cleared .

Thanks and Best Regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

One more thing I have to ask, if it is a role that no change in the database in any minor version why you are not going to issue the new version 2.2 include the class type ?
And also what is the new thing that you intend to include in 2.2?
Best regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

We have a lot of technical issues implemented in 2.2 already, but still there are a great deal to do. You can follow the changes already done in the CVS CHANGELOG.txt for unstable. So we can not just stop the 2.2 in the middle of the cycle. This doesn't make sense in a development matter.
You have to rely on us, that we are doing the development in a safe way and with as less fuss as possible for our users.
If you mean, that you can contribute with improved demo COA in a week, it is ok for us to delay the 2.1.3 a week.
Regarding the demo site, we have decided a long time ago to let the demouser be an accountant, to easily see most of the features in the program.
But we could create another user to be of level Inquiries and explain on the Website which one he/she should use. I don't know what is best here.

/Joe

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

ok you can delay 2.1.3 for a week till I'll finish the demo data for new COA

Best Regards

Abdelhamid M. Abdelhamid - Partner & Managing Director
Abdelhamid & Co Certified Public Accountants & Auditors - UAE - Sharjah
(ACPA & IACPA) - (International Arab Certified Public Accountant)- IASCA Fellow Member
Mobile "WhatsApp" : +971 50 7948028

25 (edited by p2409 06/14/2009 02:28:20 am)

Re: Balance sheet not formated according to IFRS and IAS

Joe/Janusz
Could you please stop implementing Hameed's interpretation of financial standards changes? I'm worried many years of consistent and successful use will be changed by someone according to their own interpretation/wishes. I've seen a few of these that are simply incorrect, and others that are just local interpretations.

Perhaps Hameed you could finish your testing then list all your requested changes in ONE posting, then the group can comment before the guys make changes to the system? Also, if you think there's an IAS problem, reference the exact clause.

Doing these things would be more respectful of the developers time, given it's provided freely to all.

Thanks
Pete