• Registered: 07/14/2011
  • Posts: 7

Topic: Accounts chart for Belgium

Hi,

I have decided to move from GNUCash to a web based solution and FrontAccounting looks perfect for my needs.
However, I can't seem to find a Belgian accounts chart.

I'm still looking for a good copy of a machine readable list, but I have found a semi structured wikipedia list:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genormaliseerd_rekeningstelsel/bijlage

How can I convert this to a frontaccounting readable file?
(I mean, how do I *create* a frontaccounting readable file smile)

Thanks,
Thijs

  • joe
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  • Registered: 03/15/2007
  • Posts: 5,089

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

If this a kind of comma separated char of accounts, I might be able to convert it into FA.

Please send it to contributions email on the Webpage - Contact Us page.

/Joe

  • Registered: 07/14/2011
  • Posts: 7

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Is there any kind of structure for this CSV?
Because these accounts are layered in a tree, does FA handle trees?

  • joe
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  • Registered: 03/15/2007
  • Posts: 5,089

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

There are classes, groups (types) and normal COAs, so I guess it will fit. It does for so many other nations.
Just send the CSV file with all layers.

/Joe

  • Registered: 07/14/2011
  • Posts: 7

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Alright, I'll make a CSV from that wikipedia page so you can easily edit and import it.

  • Registered: 07/14/2011
  • Posts: 7

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

I've found an XML with all accounts, types and classes.
I've mailed it to the contributions email.

I probably can do the convertion myself if you can show me an example of how the template should look.

  • joe
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  • Posts: 5,089

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

I didn't receive this. Are you sure you used the correct address. Or use this: joe . hunt . consulting @ gmail . com .
Remove the spaces.

/Joe

  • Registered: 07/14/2011
  • Posts: 7

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

I've sent it to the gmail account smile

  • Registered: 01/12/2013
  • Posts: 2

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Is there an update on this topic? I'm also looking for a Belgian (preferably dutch) COA.

  • joe
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  • Registered: 03/15/2007
  • Posts: 5,089

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Inside FA, you can select Setup tab, Install / activate chart of accounts.

I am sure that there is at least one dutch COA.

/Joe

  • Registered: 01/12/2013
  • Posts: 2

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Yes, there is a dutch one. But it's not the official belgian COA like it can be found here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genormalis … el/bijlage or http://www.refibo.be/documentatie/boekh … ding06.pdf
I don't mind trying to do it myself but a howto or a push in the right direction would be nice smile

  • joe
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  • Registered: 03/15/2007
  • Posts: 5,089

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

If you send me a csv file with the accounts/groups/classes I can help you prepare one.

/Joe

  • From: Belgium, Wallonia
  • Registered: 01/21/2013
  • Posts: 36

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

I am new to frontaccounting and I made myself a testaccount. I have loaded the american 8 digit chart of accounts because this was , together with the polish, the only chart with 8 or more digits. I have transformed this chart into the Belgian legal charts ( Rekeningstelsel) and sorted it as neccessary for the yearly declaration at the Belgian National bank (for  small buisnesses). Now I want to save the account chart for using it in my official booking account but the only way to export is to exel ( I use librecalc). How can I import the charts I made and exported to libreoffice?
An other problem is the VAT declaration because for the declaration I need totals of non EU, EU and other purchases and I need totals of 0vat, 12% vat, 21% vat, not only the amount of vat but also the total amount of invoices excl vat for each categorie. For this there must be a chart that is not include in the balance.
In Belgium you are only allowed to declare the VAT that is marked on the incoming invoice, so only the total amount of VAT on the invoice must be booked and not to be calculated and devided into the different categories but the amount exclusive VAT must be sorted in categories.  Vat inclusive invoices are not vallid. For outgoing invoicesVAT has to be on the invoice for each categorie.
After three days I still did not find a way to enter a simple invoice in my accounts. I get always a red remark that there is nothing entered and nothing else on the screen.

  • joe
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  • Registered: 03/15/2007
  • Posts: 5,089

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

If you have made a Chart of Accounts with 8 digits and transformed this into Belgian you should just make a backup of the company you are working on. Download it and rename the sql file into something relevant, f.i. nl_BE-default or so. If you are using another table prefix than 0_, just do a search and replace with X_ to 0_, where X is the prefix number.
Then you can use this Chart of Accounts when you are creating new companies.

Please share this Chart of Accounts with us. You can sent it to the contributions account in Contact Us on the Website.

/Joe
BTW. if you are unsure, just send us the backup sql file, and we will fix it for you.

  • From: Belgium, Wallonia
  • Registered: 01/21/2013
  • Posts: 36

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

joe wrote:

If you have made a Chart of Accounts with 8 digits and transformed this into Belgian you should just make a backup of the company you are working on. Download it and rename the sql file into something relevant, f.i. nl_BE-default or so. If you are using another table prefix than 0_, just do a search and replace with X_ to 0_, where X is the prefix number.
Then you can use this Chart of Accounts when you are creating new companies.

Please share this Chart of Accounts with us. You can sent it to the contributions account in Contact Us on the Website.

/Joe
BTW. if you are unsure, just send us the backup sql file, and we will fix it for you.

I will be happy to share the accounts with you once I get this working. Please advice me about the Table prefix or direct me to some help because I do not know what you are talking about. I did not see any prefix in the charts I loaded so I think I have not used any. In  Belgium the chartnumbers are pre-defined for each group and sub-groups of accounts and using other numbers is not allowed.

  • From: Belgium, Wallonia
  • Registered: 01/21/2013
  • Posts: 36

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

An other problem is the VAT declaration because for the declaration I need totals of non EU, EU and other purchases and I need totals of 0vat, 12% vat, 21% vat, not only the amount of vat but also the total amount of invoices excl vat for each categorie. For this there must be a chart that is not include in the balance.

In Belgium you are only allowed to declare the VAT that is marked on the incoming invoice, so only the total amount of VAT on the invoice must be booked and not to be calculated and devided into the different categories but the amount exclusive VAT must be sorted in categories.  Vat inclusive invoices are not vallid. For outgoing invoicesVAT has to be on the invoice for each categorie .
After three days I still did not find a way to enter a simple invoice in my accounts. I get always a red remark that there is nothing entered and nothing else on the screen.

I have finished the Belgian Charts but VAT declaration seems not to be possible with the accounts available using frontaccounting. The VAT amount for  incoming invoices must be entered manualy and may not be calculated , the same for incoming credit notes. The invoice is booked normally but for VAT declaration purposes the amount must also show on special VAT accounts which are not part of the balance or booked over each month to their correct balance accounts which is a lot of work; For outgoing invoices VAT can be calculated automatically, but there are not two accounts available to enter each tax rate. The accounts can be added but can not be used because they have to be rebooked each month after the VAT declaration.
As I am new in frontaccounting maybe there is a solution available. The VAT must be declared about the same way as UK VAT and some other EU countries.

  • Registered: 12/25/2007
  • Posts: 2,447

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Yes, there is  a problem with EU trade taxation in current FA version, we are working on it, but solution will not be available in 2.3.x due to database changes required. AFAIK davrsani forum member has found some solution for this issue for UK requiements. We plan to extend the tax report too in next versions, but in fact even now all data needed for more detailed report is stored in FA databse (trans_tax_details table). So if you are determined to use FA anyway, you have option to hire some programmer to make the tax report customization according to your requirements.

Janusz

  • From: Belgium, Wallonia
  • Registered: 01/21/2013
  • Posts: 36

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

itronics wrote:

Yes, there is  a problem with EU trade taxation in current FA version, we are working on it, but solution will not be available in 2.3.x due to database changes required. AFAIK davrsani forum member has found some solution for this issue for UK requiements. We plan to extend the tax report too in next versions, but in fact even now all data needed for more detailed report is stored in FA databse (trans_tax_details table). So if you are determined to use FA anyway, you have option to hire some programmer to make the tax report customization according to your requirements.

Janusz

I think I can solve the problem for the VAT declaration. I need a report generator where the period dates or period can be entered and where I can select the accounts  which I want to be include into the report and sort them into a three as neccesary . Problem is I can not find a suitable report generator in the program. This way it is possble to make a special VAT -account three with totals with the existing accounts only for reporting suitable for VAT declaration. The report should be saved and added to the reports available. Is there a suitable report generator for personalised reports available?

  • Registered: 03/29/2013
  • Posts: 2

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Hi, i am new to FrontAccounting. It seems to be a good base for starting, but i have effectively the same problems with Belgian tax (VAT) and the Belgian Account Charts. Is there anyone who can give me a copy of the Belgian Account Charts which are effectively in use. As a software developer (altough i am not used to pHp) i think i can surely make some usefull adaptions or extensions.

demille wrote:
itronics wrote:

Yes, there is  a problem with EU trade taxation in current FA version, we are working on it, but solution will not be available in 2.3.x due to database changes required. AFAIK davrsani forum member has found some solution for this issue for UK requiements. We plan to extend the tax report too in next versions, but in fact even now all data needed for more detailed report is stored in FA databse (trans_tax_details table). So if you are determined to use FA anyway, you have option to hire some programmer to make the tax report customization according to your requirements.

Janusz

I think I can solve the problem for the VAT declaration. I need a report generator where the period dates or period can be entered and where I can select the accounts  which I want to be include into the report and sort them into a three as neccesary . Problem is I can not find a suitable report generator in the program. This way it is possble to make a special VAT -account three with totals with the existing accounts only for reporting suitable for VAT declaration. The report should be saved and added to the reports available. Is there a suitable report generator for personalised reports available?

  • From: Netherlands
  • Registered: 01/02/2014
  • Posts: 5

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

As the data is stored in a mySQL database you can use any (opensource) report writer to connect to it using jdbc protocol. I'm playing around with Rapidminer myself to see if I can create some custom reports from the database.

- Download Rapidminer https:/sourceforge.net/projects/rapidminer/files/1.%20RapidMiner/5.3/rapidminer-5.3.013x32-install.exe/download
- video tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/user/RapidIVideos
- Rapidminer user manual: http://1xltkxylmzx3z8gd647akcdvov.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/rapidminer-5.0-manual-english_v1.0.pdf

  • From: Singapore, India, Chennai
  • Registered: 05/02/2009
  • Posts: 6,094

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

RapidMiner v5.3.015 (Studio) is at:
http://pan.baidu.com/wap/link?uk=1949354531&shareid=1455012332&third=0

The RapidMiner v6.0.001 Studio in the page at the link above is a trial edition.

apmuthu's Website

22 Reply by toHZLjGk (edited by toHZLjGk 07/01/2015 02:26:35 pm)

  • From: Belgium
  • Registered: 05/13/2015
  • Posts: 14

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

@ Demille,

Dear Demille,

As a "Chinese volonteer", I was recently charged with the role of treasurer of a newly institutioned small foundation. Could you please help me with a sql-dump of your Belgian COA? (As a Dutchman I still have to blend in to the very strict Belgian fiscal rules..).

Also anyone else accustomed with Belgian fiscalities, you are very much invited to help me out!

Regards,

Peter

  • From: Singapore, India, Chennai
  • Registered: 05/02/2009
  • Posts: 6,094

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Anything wrong with the official Dutch / Belgian CoA?

apmuthu's Website

  • From: Belgium
  • Registered: 05/13/2015
  • Posts: 14

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Hi Apmuthu,

Although I was quite confident about my answer, I did some research first. The only similarity between a Dutch and a Belgian (Flemish!) COA is the use of the Dutch language for the account names. The Belgian COA is very striktly predefined by law ("Minimum Genormaliseerd Rekeningstelsel" and issued by the King himself (Regal Decree)!) where as the set up of a Dutch COA is completely free of choice. Yet for Dutch COA's there is a common use of 10 classes (0xxx-9xxx) just like Erwin de Bruin used for his COA.

I hope Demille will share his Belgian COA with the FA community, which will save a lot of work for the rest of us. If no further reactions follow from him or any other Belgian fellow-countryman/ woman, I will be happy to share the result of my humble attempt in the near future...

Regards,

Peter

  • Registered: 07/12/2015
  • Posts: 2

Re: Accounts chart for Belgium

Hi,
I've freshly installed Frontaccounting. For Belgium i  did not find any COA. I'm interested in creating a Belgium COA. Could anyone help me on how to start?
Or can i deliver an axcel sheet with the requestyed data - how to format and what data is needed?

Regards

Didier