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For VAT declaration purposes suppliers should have different VAT categories for domestic, EU, non EU purchases and other received non VAT invoices where VAT must be declared by the receiver of the goods. They may be assigned a VAT tax( 20%) debited to the VAT deductible account. On a second line we have to credit the same VAT tax to there specific VAT payable GL account, Eu, non Eu , etc.. because I need these for VAT declaration. This way I think it should work but it is not possible because suppliers direct invoice does not accept credit bookings.
To solve this I need TAXcategories which can be assigned a creditable account and a debitable account, as it is now, but the VAT tax must be booked automatically to both accounts, credit and debit, when the supplier is assigned to that specific TAX category. Is this possible?
For direct supplier invoice editable tax amount entry possibility would be a great help and solving a lot of problems. This may be because I am used to editable tax entry for suppliers invoices but I do not think so. I still use an old DOS based booking program where tax is calculated automatically but the TAX window can be erased and changed by the correct amount. Even changed by a formula, for example the tax amount x 50%. I still use this program for small businesses where a lot of purchases are partially for private use. Easy and quick. One time entry.
dvarsani wrote:Because tax lines posted in tax_trans_details table are not exactly the figures in purchase invoice, adding a service line does not work. When you enter VAT only line say for £0.02, the logic which posts the line to the above table will calculate net amount on £0.02 VAT (£0.10 @ 20% VAT) and post in the tax table which is wrong. There is not extra net purchase. It's just the VAT difference on the supplier invoice of few pence which I want to adjust so that my system purchase invoice agrees to supplier's invoice. In UK you have to show all VATable & Zero VATable sales & purchases excluding VAT on VAT return. FA also ignores zero VAT/tax transactions being posted to tax_trans_details table if you post invoice using form "Suppliers Invoice". So for UK purpose, only use "Direct Invoices" and make all suppliers as UK VAT registered (assign 20% VAT tax). I still do not agree with the logic of posting it's own calculation for tax purpose.
Thanks
Thank you for the explanation. So, when entering a suppliers invoice with different items who may or may not have different tax rates, Vat is calculated for each item on each line. When the total VAT calculated does not correspond with the total VAT on the received invoice the correction can not be made by adding an other line. When I make an Item called Vat-correction with 0% tax the correction will be made on the GL account and my VAT declaration will be correct or not?
A basic accounting rule is that the books show the real state of transactions. When, for example, a payment is made, it may be booked as paid the moment the payment shows on your bank account and not when the order for payment is made. The time the money can be in transaction the money-transaction is normally booked in the TRANSFERS account. The same when money is booked from one bank account to an other bank account of the company. When cash money is brought to the night-safe of the bank, this money should be in transfer till it is correctly booked on your bank-account by the bank. The account TRANSFERS should show al movements of money and allow reconciliation. This principle is not followed by FA. This is not a problem because the program allows reconciliation of the bank-accounts afterwards but this is not proper bookkeeping.
The logic in booking the VAT on suppliers invoice has the same principle. You may not book what is not real. The amount of VAT on the suppliers invoice is the real VAT declared by the supplier. Good bookkeeping does not allow to calculate the VAT for suppliers invoices because the result may not show the real situation due to errors of the supplier. UK VAT regulations is no exception on this rule. Only the VAT on a legal suppliers invoice may be declared. For suppliers invoices it is not advisable to let calculate the VAT for each item, one editable entry for amount VAT edited on the suppliers invoice is enough. Simple booking and no errors can be made because your bookings must be in balance. Posting it's own calculations is not allowed for suppliers invoices.
FA is , as far as I can tell, a very good program and should be easy to use for everybody. I use bookkeeping programs a long time and have problems with the approach of this ERP program because till now Bookkeeping and supplies were two different things for me. I keep books, my clients keep the supplies. I am learning!
Thanks
dvarsani wrote:3) To be able to assign tax rate to each GL account (just like items). This way you can stop user wrongly entering VAT (tax) to non-VAT supplies.
With my experience on MS Dynamics NAV for 11 years, I think these functionalities will make Frontaccounting a very robust and user-friendly system.
Deven
Can't this be solved with making an item category for each GL account which you want to monitor and an item for each GL account you want tax calculation?
I am new here and I made a Belgian Legal account three for FA but to solve the Belgian and EU VAT problem I assigned the GL accounts I need for VAT declaration to an item category. EU, non EU and some other totals I need for VAT declaration I have assigned to the suppliers. I hope it will work, otherwise I have had a lot of work for nothing. I think I finally get some feeling of how this ERP system works. It should be after more then a week every day's work and study.
itronics wrote:@demille
I understand your objections regarding supplier invoice posting, but you are at least partially wrong, and probably it is effect of misunderstanding of FA Direct Invoice functionality.
So, Direct Invoice is just Supplier Invoice, GRN and PO made in one step. The additional cost GL lines available in Supplier Invoice form (and absent in Direct Invoice), are for special use and in most cases just sparse. Therefore _all_ journal entry postings generated by Supplier Invoice (without GL lines used) are the same as those generated when invoice is entered via direct Invoice page.
I agree it is sometimes useful to have editable tax entries on Supplier Invoice. When FA is properly configured taxes should be properly calculated, and there should be no difference between real invoice and calculated VAT. The only reason I can see for this is small rounding errors which can be different in your supplier's invoicing soft.
Currently those differences are not supported directly in supplier invoice form in FA, but you can fix this by separated journal entry.
Again, I agree whether this is legally acceptable depends on local law. I can only say we are working on improvements in code which will make both EU intracommunity trade and above situation better supported in FA. Unfortunatelly this will not be available before next major release,a s additional databse changes are needed for this.
Janusz
Thank you for the explanation, it helped me a lot. If everybody will use FA in the future we would not have a discussion about editable tax entry possibility. But for the moment it would be ideal to have a TAX field that is normally calculated automatically but which can be erased and changed to the amount we want it to be. This way we do not have to make an other entry line to make things Legal and saving a lot of work.
Thank You
apmuthu wrote:Make one like Shipping at the bottom of the invoice or make a service item called, say, VAT Ajustments, with no tax and use it as a free form value.
Caveat: Must remember to do it each time one is needed.
My government want to know the total of o vat sales I made. When I make an Item o Vat for VAT correction the amount I fill in in the form will be totalized to my O VAT sales or not?
I really do not understand very well how this VAT thing works in FA but I think what you propose may influence the turnover.
itronics wrote:Ok, why do you prefer to entry general expenses via Supplier Invoice, instead of generic Direct Invoice form? Can you point out any cost type which cannot be entered here, and use of Supplier Invoice form is just necessary?
In my FA setup I use everyday I have just defined a couple of additional items like 'Electric energy', 'Communication services' and generic editable 'Other services' item, all with item type set to 'Service'. Using them with supplier Direct Invoice makes me free from any tax calculations, all is posted properly without manual calculations.
Janusz
A question to add is: what is legal? In Belgium the journal has to show all bookings made for that invoice especially VAT. VAT must be linked to the invoice ( supplier) and to the GL account where the amounts are booked. So, the most logic way is to book an invoice received via Supplier invoice. Editable tax fields are necessary for entering suppliers invoices because only VAT that is printed on the invoice may be declared and not the VAT the program may calculate. When VAT registration comes to check my books they only use the journals and invoices as legal documents. Direct invoicing from supplies can be easy but is it legal?
dvarsani wrote:Hi
I want to make tax field editable on direct purchase invoice & supplier invoice so that I can adjust few pence difference to match VAT on supplier's invoice (after update of tax, total amount should also update). Could you please let me guide how to do this or can this be done on next release of frontaccounting.
Thanks
Belgian VAT regulations only allows declaration for the VAT on the suppliers invoice. When the VAT on the invoice is not correct calculated it is not allowed to match it. So, the VAT on suppliers invoices has always to be entered by a editable tax field to have correct VAT declarations. VAT inclusive invoices ( no VAT shown) are not allowed for VAT declaration and VAT may not be calculated and declared. So two unique accounts for each VATtax-type are not needed . Only sales invoices have to be calculated for VAT. For EU, non EU transactions and other received non VAT invoices where VAT must be declared by the receiver of the goods the VAT has to be declared as Payable and as deductible, so two calculated tax lines are needed for the booking. This is not solved with negative bookings but must be booked debit and credit. I have read the UK VAT entry but I think it is not the solution.
In some occasions only a part of the VAT may be declared, for example when buying a car 50% of the VAT is deductible and the other 50% must be booked as an expense as non deductible VAT. When purchases are made who are partially for private use only the professional used amount of VAT may be declared.
IT is necessary to have a editable tax field in the suppliers form!!!
There are more problems and issues to be solved in Frontaccounting before it can be used for EU bookkeeping with legal VAT declarations integration.
I am a bookkeeper not a computer-programmer, so some help is needed to get this program work for most Europe Countries.
itronics wrote:Yes, there is a problem with EU trade taxation in current FA version, we are working on it, but solution will not be available in 2.3.x due to database changes required. AFAIK davrsani forum member has found some solution for this issue for UK requiements. We plan to extend the tax report too in next versions, but in fact even now all data needed for more detailed report is stored in FA databse (trans_tax_details table). So if you are determined to use FA anyway, you have option to hire some programmer to make the tax report customization according to your requirements.
Janusz
I think I can solve the problem for the VAT declaration. I need a report generator where the period dates or period can be entered and where I can select the accounts which I want to be include into the report and sort them into a three as neccesary . Problem is I can not find a suitable report generator in the program. This way it is possble to make a special VAT -account three with totals with the existing accounts only for reporting suitable for VAT declaration. The report should be saved and added to the reports available. Is there a suitable report generator for personalised reports available?
An other problem is the VAT declaration because for the declaration I need totals of non EU, EU and other purchases and I need totals of 0vat, 12% vat, 21% vat, not only the amount of vat but also the total amount of invoices excl vat for each categorie. For this there must be a chart that is not include in the balance.
In Belgium you are only allowed to declare the VAT that is marked on the incoming invoice, so only the total amount of VAT on the invoice must be booked and not to be calculated and devided into the different categories but the amount exclusive VAT must be sorted in categories. Vat inclusive invoices are not vallid. For outgoing invoicesVAT has to be on the invoice for each categorie .
After three days I still did not find a way to enter a simple invoice in my accounts. I get always a red remark that there is nothing entered and nothing else on the screen.
I have finished the Belgian Charts but VAT declaration seems not to be possible with the accounts available using frontaccounting. The VAT amount for incoming invoices must be entered manualy and may not be calculated , the same for incoming credit notes. The invoice is booked normally but for VAT declaration purposes the amount must also show on special VAT accounts which are not part of the balance or booked over each month to their correct balance accounts which is a lot of work; For outgoing invoices VAT can be calculated automatically, but there are not two accounts available to enter each tax rate. The accounts can be added but can not be used because they have to be rebooked each month after the VAT declaration.
As I am new in frontaccounting maybe there is a solution available. The VAT must be declared about the same way as UK VAT and some other EU countries.
joe wrote:If you have made a Chart of Accounts with 8 digits and transformed this into Belgian you should just make a backup of the company you are working on. Download it and rename the sql file into something relevant, f.i. nl_BE-default or so. If you are using another table prefix than 0_, just do a search and replace with X_ to 0_, where X is the prefix number.
Then you can use this Chart of Accounts when you are creating new companies.
Please share this Chart of Accounts with us. You can sent it to the contributions account in Contact Us on the Website.
/Joe
BTW. if you are unsure, just send us the backup sql file, and we will fix it for you.
I will be happy to share the accounts with you once I get this working. Please advice me about the Table prefix or direct me to some help because I do not know what you are talking about. I did not see any prefix in the charts I loaded so I think I have not used any. In Belgium the chartnumbers are pre-defined for each group and sub-groups of accounts and using other numbers is not allowed.
I am new to frontaccounting and I made myself a testaccount. I have loaded the american 8 digit chart of accounts because this was , together with the polish, the only chart with 8 or more digits. I have transformed this chart into the Belgian legal charts ( Rekeningstelsel) and sorted it as neccessary for the yearly declaration at the Belgian National bank (for small buisnesses). Now I want to save the account chart for using it in my official booking account but the only way to export is to exel ( I use librecalc). How can I import the charts I made and exported to libreoffice?
An other problem is the VAT declaration because for the declaration I need totals of non EU, EU and other purchases and I need totals of 0vat, 12% vat, 21% vat, not only the amount of vat but also the total amount of invoices excl vat for each categorie. For this there must be a chart that is not include in the balance.
In Belgium you are only allowed to declare the VAT that is marked on the incoming invoice, so only the total amount of VAT on the invoice must be booked and not to be calculated and devided into the different categories but the amount exclusive VAT must be sorted in categories. Vat inclusive invoices are not vallid. For outgoing invoicesVAT has to be on the invoice for each categorie.
After three days I still did not find a way to enter a simple invoice in my accounts. I get always a red remark that there is nothing entered and nothing else on the screen.
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