Topic: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

Dear all,

We have started a redesign effort here within the FrontAccounting to catch up with the latest technologies and UI design principles. It is also an effort develop new competitive features and attract the group of users that values all the bells and whistles of the user interface.

The new features are as follows:

- The user interface has been redesigned so that similar functionalities are grouped together.
- The Look&feel has been updated.
- The dashboard has been adopted to HTML5 and included in core.
- The menu has been moved entirely into the database.
- Bootstrap has been used as the CSS framework.
- New JQuery controls have been included, e.g. typeahead selects, sortable&searchable tables.
- The login process has been improved, so that a failed login displays the login form again.
- UI improvements in taxes configuration and invoice entry.

Please visit http://www.faplanet.pl for screenshots & demo & source.

I will be leading this project, all feedback, support, and patches welcome.

The final direction is not yet set, whether we merge the changes to core or start an alternative project has not yet been decided, and depends mainly on the feedback.

PS. I would appreciate if the admins can make this post sticky in the "announcements".

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

I had a quick look at the demo and it looks great, however I don't think it's easier to use.

You claim that you grouped similiar functionalities together but I disagree.
For example, sales related maintenance are in current FA under "sales",whereas you moved them to "setup".
One can see that all the "maintenance" functionalities  are similar and now grouped together.
I see that the "sales" functionalities, are similar and should be grouped together (as it is in FA).
For example, I add a new customer when I need it : ie I'm trying to process an order and realize that the customer
doesn't exists. I'm already on the "sales" page and from there I just click on "customer" to create a new customer (1 click).
With the new GUI, I have to click "Sales" (to open the menu), click on "Customers" , wait for the page to load, then click on "new customer", that's 3 click + 1 page load vs 1 click (for the old version). I don't see that as an improvement.

In fact, the way functionalities are grouped at the moment in FA it precisely the reason why I chosed initially to use FA.
I could find things straight, without having ever used the software. The "new" design is more like FA's compitors design which I didn't like at all.

Also, I use the executive theme, which displays all the submenus of a page. I can reach everything in 2 click (select page if not the current one, click on functionality) and if I'm on the wrong page I can see. With the new theme, you are 3 click away of everything and you have to backtrack if the first 2 clicks where wrong. I don't think this correspond to the latest UI principles.

Finally, I'm still waiting for some way of hooking the GUI so textcart could work without having to patch FA.

To summarize, I agree that FA looks old and needs to be pimped up, the proposed UI looks great, but I don't see it as an improvement and hope it won't be merged in the core as it is.

/Elax

3 (edited by apmuthu 02/23/2015 08:27:06 am)

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

Just check to see the number of database queries you need to display the average page. Placing frequently used menus that do not change often into the database can cause problems when the db hangs or gets bogged down with too many requests - practically on every page refresh or re-construct.

The very appeal of the standard FA menus is it's familiarity and ability to see all links on one page without clicking on any dropdown menus.

Check if your choice of default theme allows you to use FA in an intranet not connected to the internet.

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

I agree it's sort of an overhead if all menu is pulled from db. However it gives flexibility.
My experience with customers is that they don't like that many items in menu. More experienced users have no issue with complicated menu. This approach may merge various requirements.
If we develop the solution to have old and new skins coexisting together we have full choice:
- less db interaction for users who need fast and rich menu (old skin)
- more db interaction for new starters who need simple and business oriented menu (new skin)
Actually old skins don't work and this requires some attention.

Referring to elax's comments: menus can be customized

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

A word of explanation. The changes in interface proposed by Mithy are on early stage of development and will not go to just prepared FA in version 2.4. Anyway the proposed development directions are promising enough, so we will work together to integrate the code changes as part of next (say 3.0) version of FrontAccounting.

Moving menu scheme to database is right way to go. This approach gives maximum user interface design flexibility. I see no problem with implementing alternative menu layouts this way, giving ability to choose between current and arbitrary number of other menu layouts. The application performance should not suffer: the menu layout can be read form database once on user login and cached in session.

The proposed bootstrap theme is superious alternative for various mobile devices,  but is not so good for standard PC screen/kbd interface. But don't worry, we do not plan to abandon support for current, more conservative themes.

Janusz

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

mkozielski wrote:

My experience with customers is that they don't like that many items in menu. More experienced users have no issue with complicated menu.

I'm a user. I've been using FA several hours a day for years: 3 levels of depths in menu is too much.


Speaking of "customers" there is a difference between doing something "shinyY and  easy to "sell" to new customers and something which is easy and fast to use once people learn to use it.

A good example is animation when closing or opening windows (on window managers). It looks great, is super cool but after 30mn you just realize that waiting 2s to open a window just gets on the way.

If you really need flexibility for the menu, maybe it's better to have hooks that storing them in the db.
Anyway, maybe the solution is just mega menu (which is trendy ;-)).

/Elax

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

I will refer to the most important comments:

1. The new UI is indeed an attempt to sale, in a sense that to attract a group of users for which the current UI is not attractive. The size of this group is difficult to asses, but my guess (wild guess) is that as much as 50% of possible users could be lost. This does not mean of course that the current UI will be dropped.

2. I maintain that the current menu is clumsy and that can be measured. The changes to make it straightforward go beyond just the menu itself, so this is just the first and most important change. For example something that cryptic like "Delivery against sales order" should be turned into an "outstanding" "filter" in the "sales order view". In the same manner creating an invoice should be a "create" button in the invoice view, as it is now with customers (almost). It that sense "functionalities are grouped together". Anyway I understand your point, that is the point also why we use the linux console, which is a 1-level menu, but the majority of users do not use an OS like this. Again, this does not mean that the old menu should be dropped.

3. In Odoo you need more than 4 clicks to create an invoice, providing that the client is already there. I do not say it is a right solution, but my aim is to attract the most users possible, and your standpoint (@elax) represents expert users, so those needs exclude themselves. So it is perfectly understandable that you are unhappy with the changes.

4. The menu in its design is thought to be a 2-level, with the 3rd level being supportive only. The idea is that most important functionalities should be accessed by 2 clicks, but there is some work still to be done. This for example could be achieved by accessing the "direct invoice" directly when a user clicks "invoices", and add "transactions" as a separate entry in the "sales" menu. Anyway as proposed in point 2, I would prefer to focus on adding shortcuts than designing a "perfect" menu structure.

5. The point against adding a customer (by @elax) is a valid one but a proposed solution is a wrong. The proper solution is to add a popup menu with the possibility to add a customer in the "direct invoice" screen. By the way I wonder it has not been done yet, as it is an easy change. Following that way of thinking the screen "customers" would be for searching and only secondary for adding.

6. The "sales config" has been moved to the setup on purpose. The changes there are being made once in a blue moon so it is right to move that functionality deeper. What we care about are the most popular screens, the less popular are of course not so important.

7. The ubermenu is a cool idea although not a new one. I agree this could be a way to go, but for the moment what we have is enough, so it is unlikely I will put more effort into it.

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

I think you are trying to solve problems which don't exist. I agree that FA UI could look slightly nicer, but the only feature which is mising is 'responsiveness'. Everything else is a matter of taste.

You are speaking of UI "principles", but the first principle is probably "to make the user happy", the second , minimize the number of clicks. Your solution is adding  1 or 2 clicks to everything, I don't really see how it follows modern UI principles.

Also, the problem of "digging" under 2 or 3 level of submenu, features you don't use often is: you don't remember where they are and struggle to find them each time you need them.

What you proposed already exists, it was called OpenERP, and now Odoo apparently and as you said, you need 4 clicks to create a new customer (or pretty much everything in fact). I chosed FA vs OpenERP for that reason (and also because it was nightmare to find things in OpenERP).

The question is, why would peoble "buy" the new FA over Odoo ?
It's a bit like saying vim modes sucks, let's create a modeless vim to compete with emacs ... There a market for both editors and there is no need for 2 emacs.

In other, Don't fix it, if it ain't broken ...

/Elax

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

I have just had a look at the new demo.  http://www.faplanet.pl/demo

This looks very like PhreeBooks now !!!  smile

Check out their demo  (demo, demouser) -  http://www.phreebooks.com/pb-demo/index.php

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

I have just installed this in a demo site to play with it. I love where this is going mainly for the extra search facilities for finding customers etc.
I would switch over to this option in a heartbeat once the final version is available!!
Steve

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

It looks great,

THANK YOU

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

It looks great
After the installation, when I logged in the following error appeared

× DATABASE ERROR :
At file C:\wamp\www\faplanet-master\includes\menu.inc:15:
Cannot load menu from the database.
error code : 1146
error message : Table 'fa.0_menu' doesn't exist
sql that failed was : SELECT * FROM 0_menu WHERE menu='default'

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

Hi

Domain.PL dont work!

Bst. Rgs.,

MicCo

14 (edited by apmuthu 09/15/2015 11:03:02 am)

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

@omerabbas:

The file includes/menu.inc does not exist in both FA v2.3.x and FA v2.4.

The table 0_menu too does not exist in both versions.

It is possible you are using a very old or customised version of FA or it's fork or parent.

If you are using Drupal in the same folder and database you might encounter such an error.

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

This thread relates to the FA Planet fork which appears to be no longer working.  i suggest that this thread should no longer be sticky.

Cambell https://github.com/cambell-prince

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

It remains sticky for the nice discussions in it and it being a work-in-progress for FA 2.4.

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

Thanks Apmuthu.  Currently the domain referenced seems to be unavailable.  The approach taken to implementing the new UI requires significant changes to the frontaccounting core.  I'd like to advocate for an approach in the code that allows delegation of the rendering to the theme as proposed in this thread:

https://frontaccounting.com/punbb/viewtopic.php?pid=24867

With this method there is no need for extensive changes to the core just to implement a theme.

Cambell https://github.com/cambell-prince

Re: FA Planet announced (www.faplanet.pl)

Can You please share the working link ?